Dirk Nowitzki recently moved past Oscar Robertson to take the 10th spot for all-time scoring in the NBA.
Think about that for a second. 10th all-time! It puts him ahead of legends like Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Jerry West, and the list goes on and on. It’s a surprisingly impressive feat, and it helped put into perspective just how great of a player the power forward has been to reach such a milestone.
So with his career somewhat starting to wind down at the age of 35 (about to turn 36 in a couple of months), is it finally time to start wondering where exactly he belongs when you talk about his standing in the history of the game? Is he in the conversation in terms of being a Top 10 Player of All-Time? Top 20? According to his coach Rick Carlisle, Nowitzki is already in the Top 12, from Marc Stein of ESPN:
“I think there’s a certain criteria where you can say pretty much for certain that he’s one of the top 12 all time,” Carlisle said in an interview that will air Thursday night on the “NBA on ESPN Radio” pregame show.
“And that is, there’s only been 12 guys that have been 10-time All-Stars, [NBA] Finals MVP and league MVP. So I think that firmly puts him in the top 12. And then getting into the top 10 in all-time scoring validates that even more.”
“He’s got a lot more good basketball left in him,” Carlisle said of Nowitzki. “A lot more great basketball. So I think he’s going to pick off a few more guys going up the ladder.
“And if you look at his career and the way that he has played his game [and] the fact that his game is such a radically different game than any 7-foot-1 guy that we’ve ever seen, he’s been a game-changer. … He’s been a monster in this game and he’ll only continue, I think, to gain respect as time continues to go on.”
This stuff is never the easiest to figure out. Nowitzki has been incredibly durable in his 16-year career, which helps explain all the points he has accumulated despite averaging more than 26 points just twice. Durability should be considered when discussing how good a player is – it’s the reason players like Chris Webber, Bill Walton and Tracy McGrady will never be in these conversations – but should it be a large reason for where you rank a player? Probably not. Mark Jackson was a great point guard, but no one is crowning him the fourth best point guard of all-time just because he’s fourth all-time in career assists, just like how no one is going to think Antawn Jamison is a Top 50 player of all-time because he’s 39th all-time on the scoring list.
But as mentioned by Carlisle, it goes beyond longevity when it comes to Nowitzki. There is a uniqueness about his game in the sense that, yes, no one of his size has ever dominated an offense in the style in which he has. He’s not one to blow by you, and he’s certainly not going to overpower you with size. Yet, you fear him when he has the ball at the top of the key because once he releases that one-legged fadeaway of his, all you can do most of the time is pray. And although the numbers aren’t flashy, he’s a smart and willing passer when it comes to staying within a system (if only Carmelo Anthony had this quality, right?) – he knows how to play the right way and a dominant player that can play the right way is always scary.
That said, 12th all-time? All-time? Lets get all the names that are clearly better than him out of the way, in no particular order: Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O’Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, Julius Erving, Tim Duncan, Moses Malone, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, David Robinson and whoops. That’s more than 12 already (believe me, the list can extend further) and this is where things get tricky. How exactly do you determine who’s better? Ring count? Statistical dominance (on both ends)? Number of All-NBA teams? Basically, all those factors going in, everyone on the list is better than the German. Also ask yourself a simple question: Would you take Nowitzki over any of those guys? The answer should be a resounding no (if we’re going by accomplishments alone and not personal bias).
When you look at the entire body of work, Nowitzki is simply phenomenal. He is a rare, ultra-efficient offensive player that can get it done from anywhere on the floor despite being seven feet tall, and has done it for a long time. That said, you have to wonder if the one championship he won unfairly puts him above some of the other players (as Carlisle did) that were clearly better than him talent-wise. Would you clearly take him over guys like Karl Malone, Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing if you take the one ring out of the equation? I politely took these names off the list of better players mentioned because ultimately, rings will be looked upon. From a talent level and productivity standpoint (on both ends of the floor), though, I fail to see how Nowitzki should be anywhere near the list of people Carlisle is referring to (notice how I keep mentioning “both ends of the floor”). But hey, it’s his player so what else is he going to say, right?
For what it’s worth, Nowitzki also has Gregg Popovich’s endorsement, from Dwain Price of Star-Telegram:
“Every since he got here from Day One when nobody knew he the heck he was except Nellie he’s done a lot of great things,’’ Popovich said after Thursday morning’s shootaround at American Airlines Center. “He started out a bit slow until he got used to the deal here, and then he became Dirk, a Hall of Fame player and somebody who’s arguably the best pure shooter we’ve ever seen.
“And he’s done it with class. He’s showed up every minute he’s available, he plays hard all the time, great teammate, he’s somebody special.’’
“He didn’t get that shot – he didn’t wake up with it,’’ Popovich said. “He’s obviously got some natural skills and all that kind of thing.
“But he’s worked to be the player he is now. He’s put in a lot of time.’’
High praise, to be certain, but “best pure shooter we’ve ever seen”? Certainly, the statistics don’t back that up – he is a career 47.6 percent shooter from the field and 38 percent from the 3-point line. Exceptional, but not mystical and there have been better. Popovich also compared Stephen Curry to Michael Jordan last year, so there is that.
The Miami Heat have failed to beat the Brooklyn Nets this season, and that should not be something LeBron James or anyone else should take lightly. The playoffs are all about matchups, and if you don’t match up very well against a team in the regular season, that’s usually the case in the post season, too.
Does this mean the Heat should entertain the idea of avoiding them as much as possible in the playoffs? Reggie Miller thinks it’s something they may want to consider, from Ira Winderman of Sun Sentinel:
Reggie Miller on Miami and Indiana competing for the top seed in the Eastern Conference: “Both will say, ‘We want the No. 1 seed.’ You always want Game 7 in your building, but when you’re the two best teams, you can go on the road and actually get a win.”
Miller on the Heat and Eastern Conference opponents: “If I’m Miami and I’m looking at the landscape of the Eastern Conference, you get by that first round, you’re very well going to play either Chicago or Brooklyn, and Brooklyn has won four straight against Miami this year.
“I’m not quite sure you don’t want to get that No. 2 spot and take a little bit road less traveled to the Eastern Conference finals.”
OTHER NEWS FROM AROUND THE LEAGUE
Nick Young hopes to remain with the Lakers beyond this season, from Mark Medina of Daily News: “Lakers forward Nick Young said that he’s “very confident” that he will stay with the Lakers even though he plans to opt out of his $1.22 million option. “I think we’ll come to some kind of agreement,” Young said Thursday after practice. “Hopefully it happens. We’ll have to see what they’re going to do. I know Kobe’s going to want something.”… “Obviously I always wanted to be a Laker,” said Young, a former Cleveland High and USC product. “This would be a dream come true to still be here. But it’s crazy. You never know what happens. Last year they had a whole different team. Obviously they’ll make some changes.”… “This is home. I would be glad to finish off here as a Laker,” Young said. “My kids go to school and can say my dad was a Laker. That’s big.”
Steve Mills discussing Andrea Bargnani. Photo via Michael Scotto, Sheridan Hoops.
- Steve Mills believes he can do something special with Phil Jackson in town, from Ohm Youngmisuk of ESPN New York: ““I look at our situation in terms of putting us in a position to win,” Mills said in an interview with Spike Lee. “Obviously he has tremendous, tremendous credibility, he’s won 11 championships, he understands how to build a team. From my standpoint, the relationships I have around the league with players and agents, as we start to think through strategically where we want to go from a free-agent standpoint, we’re going to be able to understand what players are available and want to come and play in New York. There are not going to be surprises. “We’re going to have the relationships in place with players and agents, and you couple that with Phil’s credibility from a championship standpoint and coaching and what he’s done to build teams, I think together we can do something special.”
It’s been a rough season for Kyrie Irving, but he won’t have much time to think about it in the offseason, from Bob Finnan of The Morning Journal: “Kyrie Irving is going to have a busy and eventful summer. The Cavaliers are expected to offer Irving a five-year, $80 million maximum extension on July 1. If he wants to get that done before his USA Basketball obligations, he’ll have to decide before the month is over.
Training camp starts on July 28 in Las Vegas. Team USA will train daily from July 28-31 at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas. Festivities will cap off with the 2014 USA Basketball Showcase, a Blue-White exhibition game on Aug. 1 at UNLV’s Thomas & Mack Center.”
- LeBron James praised the consistent season of Kevin Durant, from Brian Windhorst of ESPN: “”He’s the most consistent basketball player as far as the MVP this year,” James said about Durant. “He’s put up some great numbers.”… “I think KD has had one heck of a season,” James said. “If he’s rewarded with the MVP, it would be great. It would be awesome for him, for his family. He’s played MVP-type basketball. I don’t really get caught up into what people say. At the end of the day, they have their own votes and they go from there.”
Perhaps fittingly, given how the season has gone for the team, Anthony Davis and Eric Gordon are set to shut it down for the rest of the season, from The AP: “The Pelicans say All-Star forward Anthony Davis will miss New Orleans’ final four regular-season games. The club also says guard Eric Gordon is scheduled to have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee next week. Davis, who has averaged 20.8 points, 10.0 rebounds and 2.8 blocks this season, sat out Wednesday night’s loss to Phoenix with back soreness. The club says team doctors have determined that Davis could use another week or two of rest to heal properly. New Orleans’ season concludes with two games each against Oklahoma City and Houston, starting Friday night in Oklahoma City.”
James Park is the chief blogger of Sheridan Hoops. Find him on twitter @SheridanBlog.
Hey there! I simply want to give you a huge thubs up for the excellent information you have here on this
post. I’ll be coming back to your site for more soon.
my web page plastic surgery mn [Kam]
The frustration lies within many online marketers of the multiple
and maybe even unnecessary changes the search engines
make to their so called “algorithm” and YES I will agree I have shared these
frustrations. Search engines are far more ‘intelligent’ today and effective SEO
requires actual meaningful content pages, social networking, articles submissions,
and a focused marketing effort. Make an effort: Unique content
is, by definition, rare.
Dirk took his team to two finals in two different decades.besides him and kobe who else did that
Hi, i believe that i saw you visited my website thus i came to “return
the favor”.I am trying to find issues to enhance my website!I guess its good enough to use some of your ideas!!
Just want to say your article is as amazing. The clearness to your post is
simply excellent and i could assume you are knowledgeable
on this subject. Fine together with your permission let me to take hold
of your RSS feed to keep updated with impending post. Thanks 1,
000,000 and please keep up the enjoyable work.
Its like you read my thoughts! You seem to know a
lot about this, like you wrote the e-book in it or something.
I think that you can do with a few percent to pressure the
message house a little bit, however instead of that,
this is fantastic blog. An excellent read. I will definitely be back.
Thanks for the good writeup. It if truth be told used to
be a entertainment account it. Glance advanced to
far added agreeable from you! By the way, how could we communicate?
Very interesting information!Perfect just what
I was looking for!
I was examining some of your posts on this site and I conceive this site is very instructive!
Keep on posting .
Real great info can be found on blog .
I like this weblog very much, Its a really nice situation to read and incur info .
Very interesting points you have observed , thankyou for posting .
“Lefty Wise guy dont carry wallets, they carry their money in a roll….beaner on the outs” by Donnie
Brasco.
I like this blog its a master peace ! Glad I discovered this on google.
“Live…..Laugh…..GOLF” by Kathryn Schaefer
Plaum.
Wohh precisely what I was searching for, regards for posting .
“Be nice to everyone on your way to the top because you pass them all on the way down.” by Fred Hufnagel, Sr..
I always was interested in this topic and stock still am, thanks for posting .
Thankyou for all your efforts that you have put in this.
very interesting info . “Never trust the advice of a man in difficulties.” by Aesop.
I like this site very much so much great information.
“If little else, the brain is an educational toy.” by Tom Robbins.
Great post, I conceive website owners should learn a
lot from this weblog its really user friendly
. “Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.”
by George Carlin.
Very nice pattern and excellent articles , hardly anything else we want :
D.
Keep up the excellent work , I read few blog posts on this website and I conceive that your web site is real interesting and contains
bands of excellent info .
Its wonderful as your other blog posts : D, regards for putting up.
“A great flame follows a little spark.” by Dante Alighieri.
I see something genuinely interesting about your web site so I saved to favorites .
Very interesting topic, regards for putting up.
You have observed very interesting details! ps decent website.
Very interesting information!Perfect just what I was searching for!
I was looking through some of your posts on this site and I believe this internet site is rattling informative!
Keep putting up.
Rattling excellent info can be found on web blog.
I will say this though. Dirk has to he the best international player the NBA has seen.
At no point in this article did you mention where you believe Dirk belongs. As for statig that winnig a championship “unfairly” puts Dirk above the likes of Barkley, Malone etc. I think is a slap in the face to Dirk and what he accomplished.
As for peak vs. longevity, using Mak Jackson to make your point is ridiculous. Dirk has arguably been a top 10 player in the NBA for fourteen consecutive seasons something that Mark Jackson never once sniffed. A lot of players can put together three or four great players, very few can continue to play at that level. Dirk, at his absolute peak, was still a top three player in the NBA who prevented a prime Duncan or LeBron from securing First Team All-NBA in multiple seasons.
Let us not dismiss the fact that Dirk had Tyson Chandler — albeit a sheer defensive force — as the second best player on his championship team. Additionally, naming players because they were more talented doesn’t really accomplish anything. Further, some of the players you named played with other elites — Malone with Stockton; Shaq with Kobe; LBJ with Wade; Duncan with Robinson, Parker and Ginobili. Dirk had Nash for a few years, then Jason Kidd in the latter part of his career. A legitimate argument can be made that he’s top 12-15, IMO.
Dirk Nowitzki is in my opinion top 15 top 20 but I’m also a lil bias cause he is my favorite player. I had absolutely no problem with the points you were making and agreed with some of them but I have a HUGE problem with you saying “one championship he won unfairly”. You make it sound as if Nowitzki and the Mavs either didnt deserve that title or that they cheated by saying it that way. I dont know exactly how you meant it but that’s how it sounded and I don’t think that’s fair to Dirk and the Dallas Mavericks who defeated quality teams to win that ring
I am not at all taking away the fact that he won a championship, but winning a championship is about having the right team, circumstances (like not having to face Michael Jordan) and some luck. To say one player is better than another over the course of a 14-17 year career because of that one prominent year doesn’t make sense to me.
Actually Jim I apologize I misread how u wrote unfairly. You were referring to being put unfairly above other players not winning unfairly. I apologize, I read that wrong.
Dirk didn’t have to go through MJ but he did go through Kobe, Durant and LeBron in consecutive series to win his championship. Not to mention, he single-handedly kept the Spurs from a three-peat and arguably outplayed Duncan in what Duncan himself has called his best individual playoff performance of his career. Lastly, it’s important to forget that Dirk is the only player in the last tweny years to win a championship without an elite #2.
I can’t understand why do you call it unfair that players like Malone and Barkley never got rings because Michael Jordan happened to play in the same decade. In this case I think LeBron can be compared to Jordan. I’m sure that Lebron will be the reason why great players won’t win championship in the future. Just the same way why players like Dwight haven’t won championship yet because of Kobe. Dirk already beated Lebron.
Game changes but the circumstances stay the same.
We will never see anyone like Dirk ever again. Dirk has revolutionized the power forward position. He was the first truly dominant international player who never attended college in the States. He’s also the first and best stretch-4 so far. In today’s NBA PF must be able to shoot the basketball.
I believe you know something about basketball, but for real Dirk has been praised by so many great players and coaches. If Carlisle and Pop praise Dirk so greatly you should not shoot it down immediately. I’m sure those two coaches know Dirk’s game better than you. They have seen it and felt it. Of course Carlisle might be little biased but he still works with Dirk every day. Carlisle and Pop have been in the league for a long time. They have also seen other great players in their primes but the still can say Dirk is better than them. Looking at your pic I would say you’re no older than 30. That means you haven’t been able to see somebody like Oscar Robertson. Carlisle and Pop have seen him but still at least Carlisle’s logic (MVP, Finals MVP, 10-time all-star) says Dirk is better.
I want to conclude this novel by saying that prime-Dirk was not a bad defender. Of course he wasn’t anywhere near Tyson Chandler or Roy Hibbert level but Dirk was able to hold his own in the post and was a smart help and pick ‘n roll defender.
I’m sorry if I offended you in any way and I hope you understand at least few points from my non-native English.
I believe that it speaks volume that Pop has long been one of Dirk’s biggest advocates. Given how many times they have seen each other ove the past fifeen year, Pop knows Dirk’s game better than anyone. Dirk was the one player that mid 2000’s Spurs D could never find a way to defend.
Don’t get me wrong. Dirk is an amazing player and I never took that away from him. I don’t think it should be an insult to say that he doesn’t quite stack up against the absolute best players in the history of the game. I also think it’s funny how the narrative went from he’s “soft” to now the 12th best player of all time simply because he won a championship.
Anyway, no matter what the narrative is, I’m going to look at every aspect of a player to determine whether one was better than the other & not base 13-16 years of basketball on one ring. In that sense, I can’t fathom how anyone could rate Nowitzki above someone like Karl Malone, who at the very least was an equal on offense and was on multiple All-Defensive teams.
The narrative that Dirk was “soft” was always ridiculous and held by people who didn’t watch games. Dirk was able to put together one season where he captured the ultimate goal. Barkley and Malone never did so, David Robinson never so much made the Finals as the “man guy”. That doesn’t automatically elevate Dirk over the aforementioned players; however, it is certainly a part of Dirk’s resume and should not be discounted.
Do I believe Dik is one of the top 12 player of all time? Probably not. Although I would like to see what a prime Dirk would have done with a legitimate Robin playing next to him. However, I certainly think he is in the top 20.
I don’t think Jim is saying that the Mavs unfairly won the 2011 title, he’s Dirk shouldn’t automatically be elevated above Malone and Barkley because he has a title.
Yeah I went back and read again I misread what he said. I was wrong.