NEW YORK — One major piece of information that needs to be out there before NBA labor negotiations resume:
A source close to the talks tells SheridanHoops.com that the owners have dropped their insistance that players agree to a 50/50 split of revenues.
That precondition is what brought about last Thursday’s contentious breakup after the sides had met for more than 30 hours over three days.
THEY ARE ALL OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MINDS, BOTH HAVE THE BEST OF 90% OF ANY ONE ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY & ALL US POOR ASS PEOPLE WANT IS ENTERTAINMENT, SOME BASKETBALL. MY WIFE & I LOOK FORWARD TO BASKETBALL SEASON REALLY BRING US CLOSE TOGEATHER. OWNERS & PLAYERS NEED TO STOP BEING SO DAM GREEDY.
This situaiton is not the fault of the players, it is he fault of the owners. The owners should be doing a better job of generating revenues from the NBA brand name, running their franchises more successfully. We as fans do not know abt financial sheets and figures of the franchises, can not evaluate why they are losing money. Player salaries is not 100% of their expenses; what’s happening in the area of the rest of their expenses? The players are the ones entertaining us not the owners; I wouldn’t care who the owner of one franchise is, it is Me A or Mr X. The owners are surely making several mistakes while running their business and they are now trying to transfer the losses on the players. Why should all players in the NBA collectively suffer and pay a price because of the fact that the Orlando Magic management has made a mistake and signed Gilbert Arenas to a foolish contract?
The labor rate is too much of the revenue. 50/50 is better. Remember players salaries directly cost inflated prices to ticket buyers.
Owners have NBA ,Players have NBPA what do we have ,the fans, the public ,the actual paymasters ,NOTHING,I think it is time for all the fans to get together form some union and raise their voice so these greedy mongrels know that ,it is our money they are fighting for and we also need to know what and how they all need to be paid & What is fair .The fans should also be representation in each meetings and what we want should be also considered otherwise as fan base we should defy these games ,So they all know what we as fans have more strength then they have put together.We pay for their Arena’s too.So it should be a mutual decision when some NBA leaves some city high and dry .If that community can not afford a brand new Arena for them.(Seattle).If Fans get together this NBA and NBPA BS will fade away soon cause we know we are more stronger but our strength is in our unity.
i think you are right, if we didn’t patronize…there will be no lockout and they are all busy on making us happy….so never let them know that we appreciate so that they will not stop working to get our attention and because they got our attention…everything will start from there what I mean is $$$$$$$$$$$$$……i dont know if we are to be blame too?????????????now it makes me wonder
Is it greedy that Tom Hanks, Johnny Depp or Keanu Reeves make $20 million per movie…??? Im just wondering cause at least there are 82 Basketball games in which to see said “greedy” players that can barely walk when they get to be up in age, yes they benefit but so do we… they entertain us…!!!!
*****Remember***** the owners split their 50% between 30 people the players have to split it between 360 people… and you wonder why they are making a big stink… Kobe could care less about this since he makes close to $300,000.00 per game but what about Willie Lump-Lump that has splinters galore and is making league minimum…??? After taxes thats about $250,000.00 and yes thats waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than i make yet I wasnt blessed with the parents that would push me or even allow me to be an “entertainer “… Its not my fault that they make more in a year that i will make in 10… All you people that keep calling players Greedy need to stand up for something, THAT CONCERNS YOU, in your life… JUST ONCE…
If Tom Hanks, Johnny Depp or Keanu Reeves were refusing to accept the economics of their industry, I’d call them greedy too.
The NBA revenues were split 57/43 in favor of the NBA players, but the owners had the burden of paying for increasing costs with declining attendance. While the players had the benefit of guaranteed contracts. So how many more people are being paid out of the 43% when you consider the owners pay all of the expenses of each team, from parking attendants, concession service workers, security, administrative staff, coaches, trainers and doctors. The 43% gets split many, many, many more times than the 57% that goes to 360 players and their posse. Give me a break!!!
From what I have read, the superstars are the ones that do not want to agree to a lower max contract figure. This affects 15 out of 360 players. If it was the guy making $500,000/year that was making a fuss, I’d side with the players. But unfortunately it’s the greed of the top 15 that is holding this thing up.
Can someone show me where a business owner is guaranteed to turn a profit…
Can someone show me where a business owner does not have the right to adjust his cost structure, even if it is to the detriment of employees? Layoffs happen all the time. Restructuring happens all the time. The whole purpose of taking ALL THE RISKS of owning a business is to make a profit. No one is guaranteed a profit, but they have every right to make adjustments to their cost structure to have a better chance of making a profit.
What other businesses besides pro sports GUARANTEE their employees a percentage of revenues? Does Disney? Does Microsoft? Apple? Google?
If you think it’s the top 15 players that are causing all this, I would say take out those top 15 from the NBA and see where the NBA is ending up…
What is the total value /revenues of the NBA today, like $4 billion a year? Send away Kobe LeBron Wade CP3 Durant Stoudemire Carmelo Dirk Dwight Rose D-Will Nash Griffin K.Love Garnettl, fill their places with high school graduates, and see how much revenue their respective franchises are making the following year, and how much the NBA is making… Top players are the ones that make the NBA the world’s top sports arena.
Over the next 10 years they will ALL be replaced. Did the NBA die when Jordan, Ewing, Barkley, Olajuwon, Stockton and Malone retired. No! All these players get replaced. If they get too greedy, let it happen now.
These players don’t make the NBA. These players come and go, but the NBA lives on.
Your words didn’t make any sense to me. What is “if they get too greedy, let it happen now” supposed to mean? What is the idea? Retiring the “greedy” top 15? Now? All at once? How is the reference to Jordan and the other names make sense in context of the present discussion, did all those names leave NBA all at the same time? I’ll repeat, replace the top 15 with newcomers all at one and see if you’re getting $4b revenues. I’m claiming that you can’t. Explain if you oppose that. Since you can’t create the $4b revenues w/out them, you have nothing to do but agree with them in some terms acceptable to them.
Your contention is that the players cannot be replaced. But they get replaced all the time. I watched the Lakers in the 60’s when they had West and Baylor; 80’s with Kareem, Magic and Worthy; 2000’s with Shaq and Kobe, then Gasol.
The bottom line is I watch the LAKERS, not the individual players. Over the course of time all players get replaced, but the LAKERS remain.
If Kobe, LeBron, et al… want too much money, the NBA should continue without them. It will be a temporary step backwards, but in the long run the NBA will be able to survive. Ten years from now Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade and Melo will all be gone. The owners need to make sure they get a contract that enables them to thrive.
The NCAA seems to do just fine with the lower level talent. As long as there is good competition and up-and-coming talent, the NBA will be fine.
Waving the precondition of 50-50 is a big deal, I guess. Hunter said he couldn’t listen to 50-50 unless he knew what the system would be. I have said all along that the players need something to take back to the union members but at this point the owners are crushing them. I think 50-50 could be accepted if the players keep the current system for free agency and soft cap. But if the owners want to change the system I think they will have to accept 51 or 52 percent. A deal could get done if they wanted to but more concessions by the players will require bending by the owners or they will have to test the players until mid year.
It amazes me at how some folks get jealous because ball players get so much money. The facts are that we all would like to be in their shoes. Therefore we should understand that they are in the entertainment business not a regular 9-5. Put yourself in their shoes and look at how much the owners are making from the players entertaining us. They are no different than singers or any other entertainer. It’s a different ballgame than working a “job.” There are different rules. Even though the owners and players union are negotiating, every player falls into fifferent catagories. Lawyers (agents) negotiate according to what a player brings to the court. Stars get more money. And on and on. Stop hating and break the mold that so many of us are in. That is divide and conquer!!! It is and always will be the top 4-5 % against the rest of us. Whether we are average working stiffs or million dollar entertainers. Most of us end up the same way. BROKE!!!!!! So think about that when you say the players are greedy. What are the owners making. They are not GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love to all.
Larry my man, you have reaffirmed my faith in humanity with your post. Let’s stop demonizing the players for wanting a fair deal. Thank goodness there’s still people willing to use common sense .
I agree with you both… Anyone that says the players are greedy must be unhappy with the way their life turned out or mad cause Black athletes are getting too much money…
It is not OK to say that they players are greedy, but it is juuuust fine to say that the owners are. What kind of logic is that? I would love to get my butt full of splinters if they pay me $1.5 million George Washingtons. The owners provide the venues that the players display their abilities in. The owners are responsible to 300-600 employess BESIDES the players who make FAR less than Splinter-Butt 15th man getting paid even if he is not dressed or allowed to play.
The owners screwed up the first time they acquiesced to let the union railroad them into taking 48 percent of the income, and now it stands at 57/43, and almost 67 percent of the teams are losing money. What is their “solutions?” Tax the money-making franchises and give them to teams such as the LA clippers! Socialism, thy name is NBA.
We (the fans) are not blameless. I remember when I would go see an NBA double-header – yes, two games for the price of one – that included names like Chamberlain, Russell, Robertson, West, etc. I could afford that then, but now it climbs to the thousands of dollars if I want to see 41 games. I refuse to portray myself as a victim, because all I have to do is NOT pay. Yes, I love the game, but it is my choice how much I much I shell out for that love.
I am hoping that the whole season is canned.
If the owners are responsible to 300- 600 employees maybe those numbers should be brought down to 200 -400. Quite often organisations attain higher productivity and overall output when efficiency of working methods and operations are reevaluated and necessary corrections are made, ending up with higher output with less personnel. Who is evaluating if these franchises are run efficiently?
It’s the franchise owners who make the business decisions like employing 600 personnel, and signing a star player for $80 million. They should bear the consequences of their business decisions. Any owner that loses money is free to sell the franchise to another business entrepreneur that will probably market the product better, create more revenues and make profits.
One interesting figure………………………..Kobe makes over $300,000 per game or $75,000 per quarter………………….Thats EACH GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One games salary can feed a 8-10 families per year………………………..this is GREED AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is it greed on the players side? The players are the ones that actually go out and do the majority of the work. They have to train year round, keep up with their eating habits, and put their bodies on the line each and every game. The fans go to the games to watch the players…. not the owners. The players, collectively, deserve more money then the owners.
And it is not GREED for Kobe to get paid the amount he does. He is the best at his profession and is getting compensated for being so. And there is actually a Forbes article that states he is under paid. When jersey sells, tickets sold, championships won, and merchandise sold is accounted for, they value Kobe at 70 million! He gets 25.3. That means the Laker’s organization is pocketing the other 44.7.
GREAT point CHRIS !
Ken,
From a business standpoint . . . look at how much MONEY the Lakers, NBA and TNT MAKE from the advertising alone on one game . . . I can tell you for a FACT its in the millions !
AND when was the last you complained about an actor who put out a movie . . . good OR bad and they were paid 30-40 million!
AND the movie was shot in 3 months and they didn’t even do their OWN stunts!
Think again Cowboy . . . it’s a BIG BUSINESS !
Hey we are still talking about millioniares and billioniares arguring over money. What are they doing for us the fans they not trying to lower ticket prices or even lower the price of a beer at the game both sides are very very selfish and they are destroying the game…Because none of them and none of their families for generations to come should even miss a meal.
Remember, there is only one Kobe in the world. Great athletes like Kobe are the reason people of the world watch the NBA, why NBA exists. I don’t think I would want to watch NBA if I were to watch the franchise owners instead of Kobe, LeBron…If you can think of a way to advance yourself to a status similar to Kobe’s, where the whole world will want to watch you, you could even ask for more than what Kobe is getting today…
Do you know how much a CEO or hedge fund manager, whose names you don’t even know, are making in a year, for too many years?
I think that the players will have to be on their p & q ‘s because as a owner I will start holding you to the moral clause that’s part of YOUR contract. Remember Sephon Marbury. I will continue to pay you, but I will treat you as a non-person. don’t even come to pratice, MY arena, are wear anything with the Knicke Logo on. After awhile PRIDE kick in a i just bought you out. and oh by the way the insurance that I have on each contract took care of that and i will just pass the cost on the guess the FANS.
Why have 12 players on the bench? Ten players are plenty!! What is the average salary of the 11th and 12th players that 90% of the public dont know their names, they never play and quite frankly their salaries are outrageous…………………………….This is called GREED on the players side!!!!
No way does any team need 12 players to start any game! How many minutes do these last 2 average on the floor?
Teams do need more than 10 players! Why? Because they can be injures throughout the season, and they will have to make sure their is enough players at each position. At least one player at each position .
Regardless of the amount of time the career bench player actually plays in a game, they still have to practice with all the rest of the prime time players, learn plays, handle jet lag, be ready to perform if and when needed, no calling in sick (like the average 9-5 employee) ect. Their jobs are not just the 48 minutes we see on TV. The 8 hour per day careers that we complain about could not compare to what they are expected to do, just imagine doing your job mandatorily for anything more than 8 hours daily much less 12 – 15 hours per day… Sure they have the glorious parts when recognition and the spotlight seem like a dream come true but what about the criticism they are subject to from the media for taking qa day off (most of us are allowed 12 sick days per year plus vacation and holiday time…) Just something to think about
Its clear to me that you have a fundamental problem with athletes salary. Another round of misguided anger. Do yourself a favor and pick another sport.
its not like its a sport for regular Americans i cant afford to pay the prices they ask for to see them play.
I just wanted to ask what pro sport someone could afford to spend money to go and see? NFL games are more expensive than NBA
so very true i think all sports need to scale back on their ticket prices and maybe the players and owners should take a hit for me sports has been so greedy i ready aint a true sports fan anymore its lost its appeal last time i went to a game tha my company gave the tickets and it cost close to 100 bucks for me and my kid to eat and drink
John, you can’t afford to watch tv?
yea but its not the same to watch it live
Yeah i totally agree. You don’t truly grasp how athletic the players are and how athletic the plays are, especially in football, unless you watch live.
It is better to watch the games live but most of the money being made come from the TV contracts. The viewers from around the world that are watching these games are supporting the owners and players more then anyone else.
Yeah, it’s not the same. That’s why they can charge a premium. Otherwise, nobody would watch tv, and we’d all go to the games. Then you’d complain about not being able to get season tix (like in football). Can’t have everything.
When do employees get to dictate how much of the profits they should be getting. let the players go play over-seas for couple of million instead of 15 million. They wont be missed just like baseball wasnt missed. Football season is here and that all the casual sports fan cares about right now. NBA used to be great but its lost its luster over last 10 years
Come on we don’t go to the gym to see the owners, in fact many of us don’t know the owners of many teams we come to see the players. When you as a employee work you look for a good evaluation and a raise each year. i remember when the Bulls averaged about 6000 fans a game then came M. Jordan and they have been sold out since.
There are a hand full of NBA players that are head-and-shoulders above the rest. There is a new crop of players coming out every year, a few of which could be in the Top 10 in the NBA or at least replace the 3 through 8 players on almost every team. The bottom 9 through 12 players could be replaced tomorrow with D-Leaguers and no one would even know.
The NBA didn’t fall apart when Dr J, Magic and Bird retired. And it didn’t miss a beat after Michael, Barkley and Ewing retired. There will also be another Kobe, LeBron and D-Wade. They are probably in high school waiting for their opportunity. I’m sure anyone not named Kobe, LeBron or D-Wade would be happy to play for $20,000,000 a year instead of $25,000,000.
$20M looks good enough but it could only be a little fraction of what the other is making, and if you are the one making the the big bucks for the franchise….for the whole business then is $25M fair or greed……what is the real thing…..are we missing something or do we have to get involve on their problem….what is their problem,really?
I think the players is just protecting the players and the future players…and the owners are doing what they have to do and the nba is doing what they need to do so what is OUR PART on this, i really dont know, all I know is I enjoy watching their talent…much on a clutch time where it needed most!……..yes we fans suffer and the good things is were not losing money not unless your in the business…..
@Ron
Its funny you say that, but the elite NBA players actually have higher monetary offers from european and asian teams compared to the nba. And the players are the NBA. We could find other owners for these teams, but we can never replace the players. If the players were not irreplaceable the owners would have found some replacements.
The players are replaced every year. The next Kobe and LeBron are probably in high school. I’m sure there are plenty of players who would play for $15,000,000 a year.
The greed of the players has really turned me off to pro basketball, I hope they cancel the whole season!
Let the players feel some of the economic pain that the regular Americans have been feeling.
Its not the player that will suffer the most,think about the big picture…and I also dont think that it is the player that is greedy!
Exactly…the owners have the players locked out…the owners are hurting the service workers with every game that gets cancelled.
Owners have overspent for years, and now they want to wipe the entire slate clean. Problem is that in order to do that, players take a huge hit. This is like America’s economy. It can’t be fixed overnight.
The owners have a right to make money! Most teams lose money each year as costs increase and revenues decrease while the “employees” get their guaranteed contracts.
The owners need to get a contract which allows the NBA to survive over the long haul, without being greedy. They NBA players are the highest paid “employees” of the 4 major American professional sports. The players are the greedy ones causing the service workers their livelyhood!!
Again I say the players are entertainers not employees! They have agents that negotiate their personal contracts. Do you? The owners have all kind of tax write offs. Maybe everyone should take a business course on being a business owner. You’d be amazed at what you would find out. Just because someone makes more money than you doesn’t make them greedy. What anyone makes is in direct proportion to what the owner makes. Especially in big business that has hundreds of thousands of millioins of customers.The owners don’t play the game. People pay to see the players. end of discussion!
The owners (and their management teams) have been the ones throwing around stupid contracts for mediocre players for years and years, making bad decision after bad decision. Then when those bad decisions some back to bite them in the rear, they decide they have to have the players “bail them out” of the consequences for their bad business practices.
The players are not the ones going in asking for more money, that’s the owners. That is exactly what this lockout (a labor stoppage initiated by the owners, *not* by the players) is all about: the owners want to reduce the split of revenue that they agreed to the last time they locked the players out in the 1998-99 season.
I’m certain that teams some lost money over the past few years, but why is that? One of the main reasons is very simple: the owners exercise poor judgment in the contracts they throw around to mediocre players, and when they lose money because of their own stupidity, they want the players to sacrifice because of it. In essence, the owners are saying “We can’t be trusted to run our own businesses responsibly, so we want to reduce your salaries and gut the terms of your contracts to protect us from our own stupidity.”
Now I’m sure that in the end the players will have to end up accepting less than they wanted to, but the bottom line is that the mess was created by the owners. And the owners want the players (who are, face it, the entire reason for the league’s existence) to give up more and more to save them from their own stupidity.
Larry H..
The players are employees! Just as Charlie Sheen was an employee despite being an entertainer. The two are not mutually exclusive just because they have an agent and a contract, they can still be fired as an employee.
As far as owning a business goes, I own my own business. I am the one taking all the risk. I am the ONLY one who can lose money. My employees cannot lose money. Please don’t lecture me about tax write-offs. I am a CPA and tax write-offs have nothing to do with this situation. When you lose money and are running out of cash, tax write-offs are of no benefit in the current year.
Since when are employees paid in direct proportion to the owners? What world do you live in? Disney has made billions this past year. Does their janitor make 10 times more than a janitor at the local high school. Your comment is ridiculous!!
The players are nt on strike, this is a lockout. The owners wanted more money and a better deal. The problem is the big market teams have been reluctant to come to an agreement on revenue sharing. We as you have 50years to work players have maybe on average 5 years in the nba so they need to cash in while they can. Why is there a race to the bottom? We as Americans have allowed business to erode workers rights, now every time someone has what is perceived as a better deal than you there is collective outrage. Look at the way we demonize teachers and their union as if teachers make a lot of money. Do not be mad because you are not happy with your life.
The owners have a right to run their business and make a profit. Most of the teams cannot survive under the current collective bargaining agreement, that is why they have chosen to temporarily stop their businesses. Most teams will lose far less money as the season goes on by NOT PLAYING.
I don’t want to hear about the “short NBA career of only 5 years”. The average NBA player makes $5.5 million a year. They make more in 1 year than the average American will make in 100 years!!!!! In 5 years they will have made $27 million!!!! But as one NBA player said….it takes a lot of money to maintain a Ferrari.
It’s unfair to look at averages. Instead of looking at averages, why not look at median salary which is the middle of the road. With superstars making $20 million a year, that distorts the average. The median salary is only around $2.2 million. Therefore, they’re only making $10 million for their career. They shouldn’t be vilified for making a fraction of what the owners are worth.
Thank you for bringing light to the fact the median salary for an NBA player is only $2.2 million. So the average American would only have to work 44 years instead of 100 years to make that amount of money. Great, its seems so much better now that you’ve clarified things. Obviously there is no greed on the players part now that we all know they only make $11 million over 5 years. How can they possibly afford to buy the new tires for their Ferraris and Lamboghinis with such paltry salaries.
I love your comments. Right on the money. Those who don’t know will always be jealous and think the wrong thoughts. That is part of the divide and conquer plan. We must all help each other learn more.
It takes a lot of money to maintain a Ferrari. It also takes a lot of money to maintain any car. Of course we don’t look at the big picture only the athlete, entertainer that we talk about. You struggle with your car, if you have one, just like they struggle with theirs. The difference is they can afford a more expensive car. But it really doesn’t make a difference. Everything is relevant. They make more. They spend more. They have more problems. Look at reality and see we are all the same. A problem is relative to the person and their situation. If I am on an ocean liner and you are in a row boat, and both sink, we will both be in the water! End result is ths same. Stop hating!!!!!
It takes a hell of a lot more to maintain a Ferrari than a car that the average American can afford. For the players to complain about their financial situation and compare it to “indentured servitude” is ludicrous!
I don’t hate them for making tons of money. I have no respect for them, or any one else who complains about their financial situation while making tens of millions. They should take their millions and be happy that they have been blessed with the talent to play a game for a living.
Well put. I notice ken and co.aren’t holding the billionaires feet to the fire over americas financial ills.
One step closer to a deal? I’d like one ticket on the hope train again, thank you.
how excited should we get? They are meeting again… which is all I really wanted, and the announcement to cancel the next two weeks of the season hasnt come yet. I suppose thats also good news.
I just wish I could picture them coming out with a deal. I have a feeling that they are gonna somehow move within like 40 or 50 million dollars and not be able to get it done.
Amen!
I’m glad they came to their senses and removed the “preconditions”
How moronic was that?
Then again, how moronic is it that the owners want to right all wrongs in 1 swing?
The economic model for the NBA franchises has changed. Attendance declined each year from 2007-2010. The attendance in 2011 increased from 2010, but only up to 2005 levels. I think it would be moronic to agree to another CBA where the NBA owners continued to lose money for the duration of a new CBA, the next 10 years.