If you were Sam Presti, would you trade Kendrick Perkins, James Harden, Eric Maynor and your best available first-round pick for Dwight Howard?
Don’t worry, Thunder fans. It’s a trick question. Dwight Howard’s not going to Oklahoma City.
He’s not going to Memphis for Marc Gasol and O.J. Mayo. Or to Indiana for Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert. Or to the Los Angeles Clippers for Chris Kaman and Eric Gordon.
But Howard is going somewhere, that’s for sure.
In the summer, Howard – who can opt out of his contract and become a free agent after this season, whenever it starts – told NBA.com he had met with Magic owner Rich DeVos and said there was no way in hell he was staying he wanted to win a championship and “things have to change” if that didn’t happen this year.
Given that the Magic have gone from Finals participants to first-round flameouts in two years, that’s highly unlikely. But just in case all the lockout talk this summer had numbed everyone’s minds, he laid out a few more tea leaves in an interview with Esquire magazine.
“There’s more you can do in a bigger place,” Howard said. “I’m stuck in a tough position because I feel like right now, where I’m at, I’ve done so much. And I just don’t know what else I can do.”
Howard also threw Stan Van Gundy under the bus, saying the coach “yelled a lot” and “sometimes when you have so much negativity, it’s really hard to be positive.”
So to summarize, Howard has done more for Orlando than Mickey Mouse, having oversaturated the godforsaken swamp with his boundless goodwill and positive energy. And he has done this without much help from his teammates and his coach, who should remember that if you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all. For all those concerned, it might be best if he just moved on to a bigger city where he would be more wealthy and popular appreciated. Despite all those hardships, he would consider staying – but only if that elephant can fit through the eye of this needle.
Howard also said in the Esquire interview that he wants “to be an icon.” That’s not going to happen in Oklahoma City, or Memphis, or Indiana. For an NBA player, it can only happen in a handful of places, and Orlando isn’t one of them. Just ask Shaq.
Magic GM Otis Smith is over a barrel. He has to blow up his team and trade Howard, or risk losing him in free agency. He also has to keep his fingers tightly crossed that the “Carmelo Rule” that has been discussed in labor negotiations does not become part of the next CBA, or he is resigned to getting zilch for his franchise player.
We’ve come up with a few suggestions for Smith on where he might want to send Howard and get something more than a bag of hammers in return. And yes, we considered Miami, where Chris Bosh would be the centerpiece of the return package. But the Heat don’t have draft picks to trade, and who else would the Magic really want off that roster?
The bottom line is there’s not many options. If you think you have a better one, well, that’s what the comment box is for.
5. Howard to New York for Amar’e Stoudemire, Landry Fields and a first-round pick. Replacing Stoudemire’s face-up game with Howard’s omnipresence on the block would be the ideal way for the Knicks to show the door to Mike D’Antoni and his intransigent approach to defense, wouldn’t it? Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups and Toney Douglas can drain 3-pointers off the post double-team just as easily as off the pick-and-roll. And Howard’s presence doesn’t make the Garden any less enticing to Chris Paul.
Fields will turn Hedo Turkoglu into the most expensive backup small forward in the league. The Magic would still have a presence in the middle in Stoudemire, who would be super pissed after a season on the high hog in the Big Apple. He is from Orlando, but this homecoming would rival Alex getting out of prison in A Clockwork Orange.
ODDS: 100-1. This is the same deal the Magic have made since reaching the 2009 Finals – acquiring high-priced, big-name talent that doesn’t fit. The Knicks would be better served sitting tight and popping for Paul in free agency.
4. Howard to New Jersey for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, Anthony Morrow and two first-round picks: This is the sort of package the Magic will receive if they wait too long to deal Howard – one good player, a couple of rotation players and a bunch of unknown future players. Lopez somewhat replaces Howard’s scoring and Humphries – who would have to be a sign-and-trade – somewhat replaces his rebounding. Morrow allows the Magic to let Jason Richardson walk, beginning a necessary salary purge.
Acquiring Howard will help the Nets lock up Deron Williams and move to Brooklyn with two legitimate stars good enough to vault them into the postseason on a regular basis. But they won’t make any more noise than that unless they start filling in around them, and fast.
ODDS: 50-1. The Nets would want to do this much more than the Magic, who would be left with a rotation full of players who don’t command a double-team.
3. Howard to Atlanta for Al Horford, Marvin Williams, Jeff Teague and a first-round pick: This would be a homecoming for Howard, which might be the only reason he would consider spending his prime with the Hawks. He would also be lined up alongside Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford and AAU buddy Josh Smith, who figures to benefit the most from his presence.
The Magic get back a borderline All-Star center in Horford and a potential starting point guard in Teague. Williams would have to sign his qualifying offer to make this deal happen, and Orlando would have a tough decision to make on him next summer. But it’s not a bad return for giving up your cornerstone.
ODDS: 40-1. Horford is a base-year compensation player, and the Hawks might be reluctant to include Teague.
2. Howard and Quentin Richardson to Chicago for Joakim Noah, Luol Deng and a first-round pick: Yes, the Bulls would be giving up a lot, but there’s a price to pay for pairing Howard with MVP Derrick Rose. Just imagine the lob passes. Keep in mind that this doesn’t solve Chicago’s issues at shooting guard unless the deal is expanded to include J.J. Redick, whom the Bulls were chasing as a restricted free agent a year ago.
Noah is a future All-Star and Deng will always be able to score. However, the deal would leave the Magic a bit small across the frontcourt if Hedo Turkoglu is used as a stretch-4.
ODDS: 25-1. This is a solid package for Orlando because there’s no trash with the treasure. But Noah also is a base-year guy, and his rising cap number is a concern for a team with multiple bad contracts.
1. Howard to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum and two first-round picks: This has been the most rumored deal in various incarnations, and it hasn’t happened because Jim Buss doesn’t want to trade Bynum anywhere, for anyone. But with new coach Mike Brown on the sidelines and Kobe Bryant finally starting to show some wear and tear, now is the time.
The Magic can’t do any better than this. They get back the only center who can stay in a discussion with Howard, allowing them the flexibility to continue to play inside-out or entirely rebuild their roster around Bynum, whose health issues are definitely a concern. It also allows them to keep a good coach on the sidelines instead of placating a prima donna.
ODDS: 10-1. Can’t see this deal expanded to include Lamar Odom or Ron Artest, although Matt Barnes could be a throw-in. Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Superman – the tradition continues. Just do it already.
Chris Bernucca is a regular contributor to SheridanHoops.com. His column appears every Thursday. You can follow him on Twitter.
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Nice article! Dwight IS leaving. There is no way in hell he stays in a small market without any pieces around him, only with long and bad contracts surrounding him, no picks and a coach he doesn’t really like.
In the end it all comes down to where Dwight wants to go.
Home to Atlanta to his buddy Josh Smith or to the soon-to-be Brooklyn Nets with the russian Mark Cuban or does he join the ranks of all-time great Laker big-men.
My bet: The Lakers. Unlike Nets and Hawks, the Lakers can offer better players, and more importantly, take back Hedo’s bad contract. Also, they would be a lock for next years finals.
Knicks are going all-in for CP3 and the Bulls aren’t trading Noah and Deng.
If Dwight is willing to go to OKC they have the best package there is. If not, it gets interesting. If he’s willing to go to the Clippers, they have the 2nd best. Another big if.
If we want to be realistic, and Dwight wants a big market like NY, LA (but not the Clips) or Chicago, the Nets have the best offer. I like the talent from Chicago but they contracts are big and it would keep the Magic in the 1st round exit realm.
I guess the players they get from the nets will advance them past the first round?
@Keith
I don’t why you think Boozer should be the first option. He had many passes from Rose that he bricked and other Bulls as well. If Rose was the point guard for the celtics he would avg double figures in assists. I want you to look at the shooting % of the Bull starters it’s not something to holla about. This idea that Rose is taking away Boozer’s points is crazy he had many opportunities to be a 20 point scorer he just flat out bricked a lot of shots. This idea that Rose is a shoot first guard so be it, I want him to follow the Oscar Robertson model as far as being a point guard. All this talk about Williams being a better point guard because he gets more assists, well tell how many finals has Williams been
In? How many MVP had he won going back to high school how many state title in college hue many final 4’s. Again last point did you see how Rose abused Williams in Utah and Jersey?
Like I said Rose isn’t a pass first pg. I don’t think he can average high assists it’s not his game and the team is constructed around him imo. That was just an example how the point guards are different I don’t know maybe it was Sloan’s system that made Boozer look good.
Maybe he would average more assists in Boston we’ll never know for sure.
I’m not old enough to know Oscar Robertson’s game but didn’t he average a triple double one year? The closest I seen to that is JKidd.
MVP’s usually go to scorers, case in point Kidd’s first year in Jersey he could’ve won it but they gave it to Duncan the dominant scorer.
It’s not easy to reach the finals plenty of good players haven’t got there.
Yeah Rose is an amazing player.
@Keith
Rose can easily be a double assist man,if you watch every game you would that his assist total should be higher. He had a lot of assists that should have been assist but his teammates missed more open shits than some high schoolers. If you look at Sloan’ s offense in Utah it has made the 2 point guards ge coached outstanding assists men. Stockton and Williams. Now to show the difference look at Phil jackson’s offense I dint think he ever had a point guard in the top ten in fact he really never had point gumard of substance. As for Oscar Robertson I saw him play I only mention him because he is who I want Rose to become not the triple double man but the 27-8/9 assists man. Not only did Oscar avg a triple double for a season but if you avg up his first 5 seasons in the NBA he stat wise had a triple double his first 5 years in the NBA, so to ask someone to do that won’t happen. You mention Jason Kidd, not in the same sentence with Oscar.
Well enough about this topic, everybody will have their chance to talk do do once Howard determines where he wants to go. Every fan of their own team who has a remote chance will be waiting for any trade or announcment thats says Howard signs with ???? Only one set of fans will sing out loud while the weak fans will try to find ways to explain how he made a bad choice. As a Bulls fans with or without Howard we are one 2 guard away from being NBA champs so if he comes to the Bulls great if not no biggy here, furthermore you Nets fans did you like how Rose abused Williams? That part of the game will continue as long as williams ties ujp his sneakers. And you CP3 fans did you like how he abused CP that will comtine, you westbrook lovers he abused him as well. We all are decent understanders of basketball you know (Bulls) are a 2 guard from becoming NBA champs not only NBA players know it but fans with knowledge know it as well so the Bulls not getting Howard wont determine us becoming champs. while you other team fans need Howard to even make the play-off
How can someone at least 50 years old speak such awful English and sound like a 14 year old going through puberty?
You sir, suck at the game of life.
Vinnie please am I suppose to use correct English? I suck at life wow I am 55 not 50 and I have been retired since I was 45 and I suck at life lol talk about suck please man get real you Dont like my opinions ok but to say I suck because you don’t like what I say please I would rather you never respond to me again simply because I don’t have time to train someone else’s kid about manners
Note the lack of punctuation.
Yes and it will continue
The troll hath been trolled now the troll trolls thine self.
Your odds don’t add up if you assume that Howard will leave Orlando and only go to a Big Market, or Atlanta.
Regarding Nets, you forget that Howard has to agree to the trade and definitely his first choice would be to the soon to be Brooklyn Nets. He wants to play with his friend DWill and he wants to be an Icon in Brooklyn/NYC where he won’t be under pressure to win a championship right away (unlike LA). He went out of his way this summer to see the progress on the Barclays Ctr., where he tweeted.
And NO Way Bynum is more valuable that BLopez, who has never missed a game in his 3 years and DOES command a double team. Bynum could be an amnesty candidate in 2 years.
True Lopez has underperformed in his 3rd year, but that is because of MONO, and an Injury to his arm and subsequent surgery that has prevented him from developing. I Could see Lakers adding Gasol to the mix, to interest Orlando, but then Howard would be left with an aging Kobe and would take the blame if Lakers finished anywhere but first. Also, Howard would always be one of Many on the long list of Laker greats.
Also, don’t forget that Nets can provide the most salary relief, if a deal gets done soon.
On the negative, I don’t think Nets would be allowed to include free agent Humphries until after a certain date. However, the Nets also have Damion James and Marshon Brooks who are young talent I would love to remain with Nets.
You are also wrong if Nets had a team based on Howard and DWill (and possibly keep DJames, Hump and Brooks, then Brooklyn would be a draw for other players.
Definite elite team by 2nd year. Howard would become the Greatest Net Ever (surpassing Dr. J) and they would build a statue to him outside of the Arena.
I really am not sure how you arrived at 50-1 chances for the Nets. Taking into account the deal Orlando could get, cap relief for Orlando, and Howard’s best interests, I think the choice here is obvious.
I don’t feel the need for some long drawn out response to this coat hangar abortion of an article.
Keep pushing agendas and see if you can keep the cock out of your mouth long enough to type out your next opinion piece full of fairy tales and fantasy.
If the Magic are losing Dwight Howard, they are instantly in rebuilding mode. Taking back equal salary (Lakers, Bulls, etc.) trade does NOTHING for them except keep them in salary cap hell and being a mediocre team.
Priority for a smart GM (except this is Otis) is young players, salary relief, and draft picks.
That is really the only way to put together a trade here.
Lopez saw double teams every time he touched the ball last season, on a team totally without any chemistry, and still put up big numbers. Sure, his rebounding numbers went down, but he had to carry his team on offense and played next to great rebounders in Humphries and Favors.
Noah is a pure hustle player, a product of effort, intensity, and team chemistry. I’d love to see how intense he is on a 12 win team. He’s Varejao 2.0 and look at how effective Verajao was without LBJ next to him.
He might rebound and play D, but he’s not athletic, not a great shot blocker, has injury concerns, and can barely scrape 11ppg even though his team lacks scoring. And since when do you build a team around an unathletic, injury-prone banger with no offense and a long term contract. Noah is a role player on a good team or a bad team, no better.
And it was only a year ago that people were calling Deng’s contract one of the worst in the NBA.
Both of these guys are overpaid and locked in for the long term. 2 large, long contracts for 2 role players that will never sniff 18ppg without an elite PG dishing the ball to them. Sure, that’s what a rebuilding team needs…
And do you do ANY research. Do you know what a ‘fact’ is?
QO offer on Williams?
Crawford resigning with Atlanta?
Noah a base year compensation player?
Noah= multiple All-Star with an average of 11ppg, Horford a borderline All-Star (at the same position as Brook Lopez 20ppg, and Andrew Bogut) Somehow, Noah is the one who is the All-Star? Do you even WATCH basketball?
And if Bynum is in the discussion with Dwight, you might as well put Oden in there too. Bynum has been in the league for so many years now and has still somehow NOT reached his potential? Are you still waiting for Tyson Chandler to be a 20/10 guy too? Sure completely ignore his imaturity, inconsistency, injury history, and questionable contract, and give the Lakers the best chance, and you completely lose all credibility.
Chicago fans are dreaming that their pieces have high value outside of the system they play in.
The Nets will have a giant amount of cap room after they Amnesty Outlaw. Lopez is the ONLY Center in the NBA that can carry a team besides Dwight. The Nets can offer good contracts and young talent like Brooks and Morrow, plenty of picks, tons of cap relief, AND a franchise center. And how is young talent, a franchise center, draft picks, and good contracts something a rebuilding team DOESN’T want?
With all the cap room the Knicks are slated to have next offseason (more on this in a minute) why would the Knicks give up assets and deal for D12? They are one of the few teams who will have near max cap space and if the one time amnesty provision comes through Renaldo Balkman’s 1.75M cap number will be gone as well. Depending how the cap shakes out they could start the 2012-13 season with Douglas-Fields/Shumpert-Melo-STAT-D12. At which point its goodnight Miami. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
how do you figure the knicks to have near max? they wont even be close!
Melo and Amare take up $40mil of the cap which is projected to be at $56, add in contracts of Shumpert and the 1.6 mil to Balkman and you are nowhere near max!
I can believe that knicks fans are dumb and have been saying that they have room for CP3 or Dwight for the past 6 months.
What confuses me is when reporters are either too dumb or too lazy to do the simple math that you just did. 40million on 2 guys, add cap holds for 8 other minimum players including Schumpeter and you are looking at 46million AT A BARE MINIMUM. Even if the cap number is 60, is CP3 going to play for 14million when he can get 20 staying put?
Less than that. You still need to have 12 minimum players on the team.
The 2011-2012 Knicks are currently at OVER 61 million in salary. They ARE over the cap. There is no point in talking about 2012-2013 because Howard won’t make it to free agency. Orlando isn’t stupid.
Besides Dwight wants to be with his friend DWill and wants to be an ICON in a big market.
The Nets meet his qualifications. If for some reason Dwight made it to free agency, he would surely go to the Nets, where there wouldn’t be as much pressure.
The thing with Howard is he will determine where he wants to go even if traded he can say I wont sign and will go through free agency. What team is gonna trade several players and probable draft picks for a guy who maybe with them for 30 -40 games? More than anything I believe that Adidas is just as much behind the push for Howard to go two one of the three 3 cities such as Chicago, NY or LA. Playing and winning a NBA title will have an impact world wide Certainly as a Bull it has been done first by MJ and the Bulls brand is world wide and respect because of MJ dominance, Plus with Both Rose and Howard as Adidas shoemen what would their commericals look like winning a nba title together?
Check out these websites
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp
http://storytellerscontracts.com/
These teams (Bulls, Lakers, Knicks) will not be able to sign him outright in free-agency unless he takes a paycut.
You’re skecthy on the detail here. 1) you include Humphries in the NJ deal citing the need for a sign and trade. All indications are this will be removed in the next CBA. 2) You include Jamal Crawford in the ATL deal. He’s an unrestricted free agent and there is no way Atlanta will have enough money to re-sign him. He’s not accepting the minimum. 3) ‘Marvin Williams will need to sign his qualifying offer’???? What qualifying offer? That’s wrong. 4) ‘The Magic can’t do better than Andrew Bynum’? Are you kidding me? I’d rather rebuild with Noah. If Howard’s on the market there WILL BE alot more attractive option presented than Andrew Bynum.
He reports for Sheridan Hoops “Where the facts don’t Matter”
Actually, everything we’ve heard said S&T’s will certainly be available in the next CBA.
I’m not sure how one builds around Noah either, he’s a poor man’s Camby, a high level role player, not a franchise cornerstone or real building block.
Then you take into account Noah is just as injury prone as Bynum, even if his injuries aren’t to the same degree and the health argument goes out the window like the fallacy it is when comparing the two teams’ packages.
Add to that Deng is neutral value at best and I’m just not seeing Chicago as serious players unless you were dealing with a seriously stupid GM… damn… Otis… Touche, touche.
Wow some one really think the Bulls are gonna involve Deng in a trade for Howard? The more likely deal for the Bulls for Howard would be Noah, Gibson, Brewer and 2 first rounders. Their is no way they will allow themselves to trade Deng or Mirotic in a trade. Still Noah, Gibson, Brewer and 2 first round picks are much better than any offer on the table. Wth the Bulls being a Jason Richardson, or Richard Hamilton away from an NBA title why would they blow up their team? Any team that gets Howard will have to add more pieces to even make a play-off run for several years, But what the Bulls will have with Howard is Rose Deng, Boozer Howard and either Richardson or Hamilton at the 2
Look at what the KNICKS and JAZZ had to give up to get their star talent. DHoward is the best big man in the game and more vital to a team than CAnthony or DWilliams. If the BULLS want Howard, Deng and Noah should be a minimum of what ORLANDO should ask for. Wasn’t it rumored that DENVER wanted Deng and Noah For Melo…Dwight should command a kings ransom. He with his limitations and weak roster still continued to make ORL a viable team. What would he do with a top ten player like Rose? I’m sure coach Thibs could figure out how to adapt to losing Deng and Noah if it meant acquiring the best big man who also happedned to be the defensive player of the year as well. HOWARD>deng+noah. The only question remaining, does Howard want to play in CHICAGO.
@George Y
I really dont think the Bulls will give up Deng, I think that they would be willing to give up Noah, Gibson, Brewer/Korver and the two first round pick theirs and the Bobcat pick which could be a lottery pick. The Bulls are not the Jazz or Knicks they will not do what the Knicks and Jazz did to their teams and furthermore the Bulls are one two guard away from being a serious contender for the NBA title without Howard. The Bulls get Jason Richardson or Richard Hmailton without Howard would make them one of the favorites for the NBA title. One other thing that has not been discussed Howard wants to play in a major city that to me sounds like Chicago, LA or NY and I believe that Howard will dtermine where he wants to go, I believe he will decline any trade by refusing to sign an extention with them to use his own ability to determine where he wants to go, secondly how much is his shoe company involved in where he will go? Can you imagine that the shoe company would benefit more by having it’s two top shoe sellers on the same team? Can you think about Nike vs Adidas (Bulls vs Heat) and Bulls vs Lakers (Adidas vs Nike) again. All things on the table the best shoe selling city has been Chicago.
Chicago isn’t in the running, per everything everyone has said (including Dwight I believe on Twitter). It’s Dallas, New York (Nets & Knicks), and LA (Lakers not Clippers I assume).
Stop acting like Deng is a positive value asset and coveted player, he’s not.
You guys tried dumping him for pure cap a protected first this offseason and couldn’t even get that.
This is the worst article I have ever read. Not one of these trades makes sense to Orlando. Might as well trade for a bag of peanuts instead of these insane deals. The Hawks may not want to include Teague? Are you kidding? To land Dwight they would give up about anyone.
Dwight Howard is not getting traded. Period. He is either resigning with Orlando or going to New Jersey. It all depends if Orlando has room for Deron Williams. If not, then the two pair up in New Jersey.
@Dan
You actually think Howard will go to New Jersey? He said big city How does New Jersey stack up against Chicago, LA or NY? Even with them going to Brooklyn still Brooklyn is like a small town next to those 3 cities. Aparently you have not read anything Howard has stated he wants to play in a big city with a team that has a chance to win titles, going to New Jersey, and what they will have to give up makes them no better than Orlando. So you think Howard would rather play with Williams than Rose?
Dwight Howard would definitely rather play with Deron Williams than with Derrick Rose. Deron is a better passer and can run plays better than Rose, who rather focuses more on himself to create an offense for his team. Dwight Howard has stated that he wants to play with his close friend Deron Williams (and Anthony Morrow as well) so the Nets aren’t out of the picture. Brooklyn is the most populated borough in New York, and they will have the first billion dollar arena. Dwight would be crazy to not consider the Nets.
@Dave
Apparently you are a Nets fan to even suggest that Willams can pass better and Run an offense better you have to recall that the offense that made williams so good was a guard offense in Utah they dont run that in Jersey, furthermore to think that Willams is a closer friend to Howard than Rose is another fact that is not true, Williams is no closer to Howard than Rose is. Consider the Nets yea sign with the Nets no, why? the nets will be no better than Orlando because what you will lose to acquire Howard, while the Bulls can give up several players and create holes that they will have to fill to become winners right away. Billion dollar arena and most populated borough means fans are gonna fill the seats Chicago filled the seats when we had Eddy Curry and losing to remain in the lottery for several years, in fact the Bulls have been in the top 1-3 every year in attendance.
Dwight Howard did in fact state that he would want to play with Deron Williams. Recently, he was asked to name 5 players that he would want to play with. He named:
1.) Chris Paul (Hornets)
2.) Deron Williams (Nets)
3.) Stephen Jackson (Bucks)
4.) Anthony Morrow (Nets)
5.) Monta Ellis (Warriors)
Two of those players are on the Nets and they have the means to acquire him through trade and free-agency. The same can’t be said for every other possible destination.
So how does 13apg for the Nets make Williams a poor passer outside of Utah? And do you know ANYTHING about geography? What do you mean “He said big city How does New Jersey stack up against Chicago, LA or NY? Even with them going to Brooklyn still Brooklyn is like a small town next to those 3 cities.” Brooklyn is in NY genius!
“Duh, how does northeast LA stack up against LA?”
How is D-Will and Dwight with a bunch of scrubs not better than what Dwight has in Orlando? If that’s still not good enough for you, then take into account flexibility. Even WITH D-Will and Howard, the Nets are filled with small, moveable contracts.
And yes, D-Will is better than Rose in EVERY way except scoring. Rose is Iverson 2.0. How can you POSSIBLY say Rose can run an offense better than Williams? Even outside of Utah, D-Will, with no team chemistry averaged 13apg. That’s right 13! And that was with a broken wrist! He was 20ppg and 10apg for the season, something that Rose will NEVER do.
Williams’ skills aren’t based on speed either, unlike Rose. Williams is a clever, pass 1st PG who scores when needed but sets up his team mates first, and he’s GREAT in the pick n roll. Rose is a slasher who occasionally finds a team mate.
And how long have you watched the Bulls? They Bulls were winning when Curry was in the lineup. What was attendance like the years Jordan left the Bulls? It was like attendance in NJ when Kidd left and the team told NJ they were leaving in a few years.
And don’t try comparing NY or NJ to Chicago. Everyone in NY outside of Manhattan will gravitate to the Nets. You won’t understand b/c you’re not a New Yorker. The Nets will be steal Knicks fans east of Manhattan and carry over all their fans from NJ, who will only be an hour away. NY is the media capital of the country, No other place even comes close.
First of Rose avg 25 and 7 before you question that fact please look the players that have done that because William avg more assist than R OSS does not mean squat other he has better shooters than the Bulls have. Another untrue the Bulls were winning with Eddy Curry either you are drinking to much of that east river water or you don’t know you are talking about. The Bulls when MJ left were still in the top 3 in attendance we are nothing like you fair weather fans in jersey you will steal Knick fans he’ll you didn’t do that when you had your best teams and you think a Knick fan will convert to nets you sound. Like guy from LA thinking laker fans will become clipper fans. And the answer to your last statement how long have been a Bulls fan since 1966 and furthermore I was also a Chicago zephyr fan before they left to become the bullets when walt Bellamy was the big shot in Chicago basketball
You’ve been a Bulls fan since 1966?!!!!
This whole time I was under the impression you were between the age of 15 and 20 at best.
Yikes.
It kinda worries me that you are a grown adult and do not know that Brooklyn is a large city.
Come on now Bully you’re a long time basketball fan you know the value of a pure point guard. What if I were to say DRose takes away points from a guy like Boozer who should be the first option…
That’s crazy talk. It wouldn’t be playing to Rose strength as a 1 on 1 scorer.
Deron sets up the offense, scores when needed that’s why I like him more.
Dude Brooklyn is a part of NYC, not a small town in NY
Please explain to me why if Brooklyn is part of NY city why are saying it’s a city I am still confused as to what a borough is? Does that mean it’s in the suburbs? When I check for major cities in US top 50 where is Brooklyn? No where on the list, so to me Brooklyn is like the west side of Chicago. It’s like the Cubs on the north side and white sox on south side of Chicago. So Brooklyn is like what east, west, north of NY city
New York is made up of 5 boroughs, so the Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks will be similar to the LA Lakers and Clippers. BOTH are in New York. BOTH arenas are in the largest city in America. BOTH are in the media capital. BOTH are in the Mecca of basketball.
Furthermore, if you don’t want to accept Brooklyn as a part of NYC, then fine.. consider that it is the largest of the 5 boroughs, with a population comparable to both Chicago and LA. To say that it isn’t a large market is extremely laughable.
The ignorance in this comment is astounding. Brooklyn is the largest and most populous borough of NYC. It’s humongous.
If you honestly think DWill + Dwight in NJ isnt better than what’s in Orlando, you are mistaken. You also do not know much for a person who tells someone else “Apparently you have not read anything Howard has stated.” What he has stated is that he’d like to play with Deron Williams and Anthony Morrow, both Nets. No mentions of a member of the Magic, Lakers, or Bulls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJpz66cME0&t=1m58s
2 minute mark
@ Steven
He also sId he wants to win what are his chances with Williams, marrow and 9 other scrubs?
What are his chances with Rose Boozer and a team of vet minimum guys?
Quite high I would say, same as with the Nets…
People are vastly underestimating the impact of what arguably the best point guard could do with the best center. I have no reason to believe that getting to the Eastern Conference Finals will be difficult for them.
News flash: without Dwight Howard, the Magic are in the basement of the Eastern Conference. People don’t realize the impact Howard has. When he is out of Orlando and the Magic are stinking it up, they will realize how ludicrous it is that Derrick Rose won an MVP before Howard.
You do realize Brooklyn has basically the identical population to Chicago and if it wasn’t a borough it would be the 4th largest city in the US behind Chicago by a few ten thousand people right?
And a big LOL thinking Rose is a better point guard or can run an offense better then Deron Williams, pass some of the pineapple kush this a-way.
@BullySixChicago
Chicago has over 2.7 million people Brooklyn has over 2.6million in a smaller area. Brooklyn’s bigger and Deron Williams is better for Dwight.
Last year DRose said he didn’t want Amare to come to CHI. Know why? He doesn’t want to pass his game is scoring like crazy with defenders around him and Boozer.
There is no pint guard that can guard him 1 on 1 but he doesn’t make his teamates better. Look at Boozer, he was great with Deron in Utah he comes to CHI and stats go down.
Why? Rose is not close to the distributor Williams is.
Unbelievable scorer though for sure.
If Dwight does in fact end up on a Los Angeles team, it won’t be the Lakers. 1.) He claims he doesn’t want to follow in Shaq’s footsteps. Ending up on the Lakers and partnering up with Kobe sure doesn’t seem all that different to me. 2.) The only way that he ends up with the Lakers is by trade. How do the Magic sell allowing the best center in the league to leave the Magic for the Lakers…again? 3.) Broke-knee Bynum and 2 borderline 2nd round picks is a terrible offer. They would have to take on Turkoglu or Arenas.
Oklahoma City can theoretically offer Orlando the best offer with some combination of Westbrook or Harden, along with Ibaka and filler. Does Howard want to play in OKC? It’s certainly not the big market or the glamorous location that he would like to play in, but spending your prime alongside Durant sounds mighty tempting imo.
New Jersey/Brooklyn are able to offer a young talented big man in Lopez along with capspace. That should be pretty tempting to Orlando as well. Dwight gets to play in a big market alongside a top-10 player in Deron Williams.
The Clippers can offer them cap relief in cap space, Kaman, Foye and/or Cook who are all expiring contracts. They can offer the Magic youth in Bledsoe, Aminu and possibly and young center with potential in Jordan. They also have the ability to offer the Magic 2 lottery picks. 1 of those would be the Minnesota 2012 draft pick and the other would Orlando’s own lottery pick after failing to make the playoffs. If the Clippers were to provide a package of something like: Kaman, Foye, Aminu, Jordan and the Wolves 2012 pick for Howard/Turkoglu, then Orlando sheds a bad contract, receives near-instant cap relief, a couple of young prospects and high draft pick in the following draft. With the amnesty clause being a possibility, Orlando could use the clause on Arenas and actually be under the salary cap with young talented players already on the roster. This is a win for the Clippers, the Magic and Dwight who gets to partner up with Griffin and Gordon in Sunny Southern California.
If Dwight goes to free-agency, then his options are pretty much the Nets or Clippers.
@ RealHoopFan
Nets or Clippers how did you determine that? So you are saying Chicago, Lakers and The knicks have no chance to get Howard. Do you think that the Bulls offer of Noah, Gibson, Brewer or Korver plus 2 first round picks is not good enough? Now what can either the Nets or Clippers match that offer?
If Dwight goes to free-agency, then the team that signs him must have cap space, which the Lakers and Bulls don’t have. The Knicks have around $39M committed to Stoudemire and Anthony. Unless the salary cap increases, then Howard or Paul would have to take sizable paycuts to join those teams.
If you read what I said, then you would have seen that it is in my opinion that the Lakers do not have that much to offer. Bynum has played over 65 games only twice out of his 6 seasons in the league. He’s averaged 51 games per season in the last 4 years. If Orlando could not get out of the first round in the 2011 playoffs with the best center in the league, then they sure as heck are not going to do it with Bynum, Odom and whatever other scraps the Lakers could offer up. They would be in the dreaded limbo of being good enough to barely make the playoffs, but not advance. They would also not be bad enough to acquire a high lotto pick to really improve their team. For Dwight to end up on the Lakers, the Magic MUST agree to trade him there. If he walks as a free-agent with no sign-and-trade, then it is impossible to become a Laker unless he takes the MLE or the minimum.
Chicago could certainly offer a package based around Noah. It would likely have to include players like Deng and Asik in addition to Noah. Gibson, Brewer and Korver are nothing to right home about and will not be enough to sway Orlando. What incentive does Orlando have to trade the best center in the league to another team in their own conference? Chicago cannot sign him outright as of now.
The Knicks could offer up one of Melo or Stoudemire, but that kind of takes away from their hopes of having a big 3. I wouldn’t expect this to happen, but it would give them a better shot.
The Nets are able to offer Brook Lopez and instant salary relief. Orlando is financially hamstrung, which is the primary reason why they are at risk of losing Dwight. Arenas and Turkoglu are shells of their former selves, but make a combined $30M. At last year’s cap of $58M, their salaries would have taken up 52% of it. If the Magic lose Dwight Howard, they are going to need to enter rebuild mode. The best way to rebuild is to shed bad salary and accumulate “good” draft picks (not the borderline draft picks that the Lakers, Bulls or Knicks have to offer). The Nets could absorb a player like Turkoglu and help put the Magic in a position to accelerate that rebuilding process.
The Clippers provide much of the same. They have cap space that would serve as instant relief. There are multiple expiring contracts that the Clippers have that can be used to take on Turkoglu. The Clippers have numerous young prospects (DeAndre Jordan, Eric Bledsoe, Al-Farouq Aminu, Willie Warren, etc.). Individually, those prospects aren’t as good as Lopez or Noah right now, but they are still assets that rebuilding team would have interest in. The 2012 Minnesota 1st round pick is better than pick that the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, Nets or basically anyone else can offer Orlando. If Orlando fails to make the playoffs after the trade (because they are rebuilding), then they’ll have 2 lottery picks in a very strong draft, a few young prospects (i.e. Jordan, Aminu/Bledsoe) and hopes of being able to use cap space soon. That’s a lot to offer. You have to look beyond the names and think about the big picture from an owner and gm’s perspectives.
Most sensible post in this thread. Balanced and using those weird things called “facts”.
No one wants to sign for Donald Sterling, highly regarded as the worst owner in sports. He’s racist, cheap, and cares more about profit than winning.
what a joke of a post….none of these deals are fair trade value for the Beast in the Southeast…lets get real here…….
LOL, what are you expecting him to return, John Wall or maybe Kevin Durant?
Get real…
The league continues to consolidate through player-to-player recruitment to where there will eventually be a handful of “Harlem Globetrotters” teams and many “Generals” teams.
Sounds about the same as it’s ever been.
Sure it can be frustrating, but if you can’t see that, maybe the NBA isn’t for you?
First, fact check: There’s no qualifying offer for Williams (Atlanta deal) to sign. He’s on a horrifically paid contract already.
Secondly, the Howard sweepstakes comes down to 3 teams: Lakers, Bulls & Nets.
The Magic will look for somebody to take Arenas or Turkoglu. The team that could best accommodate that is the Lakers. Bynum+Gasol for Howard+Turkoglu would be a deal the Magic would jump on (dump Arenas, redirect Gasol for something of better rebuilding value). That’s a big gamble for the Lakers, but one that is probably worth it as they land their next great big man of the present & future.
The Bulls could over a similar deal by including Boozer, but Boozer holds much less value than Gasol redirected to another team.
The Nets have the cap space to make a Lopez + picks for Howard deal. Salary fillers wouldn’t be necessary. Humphries makes no sense for the magic who have Bass & Anderson already in the fold. Unless they’re unloading Turkoglu or Arenas in the deal, the Magic are better suited taking the cap space & trade exception.
Regarding the principle pieces: Lopez>Noah>Bynum due to cost & injury history.
Worth noting that in trades with teams like the Lakers, they are losing a Top 3 player in the game and taking back medium level talent but STILL having a gigantic payroll.
If they are going to begin rebuilding, draft picks and salary relief have got to be priority. It’s why the Nets or Clippers make the most sense.
But this is Otis. If the Knicks offer Amar’es ridiculous salary, maybe Otis takes it.
The Nets deal is the best deal they could ever get. Salaries don’t have to match plus they could absorb Turkoglu’s contract if Magic wants him to be included in the deal.
Andrew Bynum and a couple of late round 1’s are not even close to enough for DHoward. Bynum has never played a full season and will never play a full season. This race is a two team race, Bulls and Clippers. The Bulls and Clippers have talent and quality picks to offer. Dwight has to choose one of those teams if Orlando hopes to get value for him.
BULLS-Noah, Deng, Gibson/Asik, Mirotic (this years pick), Charolette pick
CLIPPERS-GRIFFIN, Gordon, Jordan, Aminu, Future 1’s(any one of theirs are better than any future LAKER picks)
I wouldn’t even talk to the LAKERS unless they offered Gasol, Bynum and took back Turk/Arenas(whomever is not amnestied).
Bulls aren’t in the running. Dwight doesn’t want to play there, end of story.
Any deal Orlando agrees to involving Dwight will have to include either Turkoglu or Arenas (whichever player isn’t released under the amnesty provision). There’s no way Orlando ever gets equal value for Dwight, and I understand that, so they need to clear cap room if they’re going to ship him to another team. An expiring contract at the same amount of Turkoglu’s contract would be ideal, in addition to a decent young player and a couple of 1st round picks. I agree that OKC makes a lot of sense for both teams (say, Harden, Ibaka, a 1st round pick, and a bad contract to somewhat match salaries), but unless Dwight agrees to go to OKC, there’s no deal to be made.
Most of these deals have Orlando getting back players that make them a mediocre team. It’s been talked about time and time again that the most efficient way to build a championship caliber team is by finding a star player at the top of the draft (ex: Lebron, Wade, Dwight, Rose, Duncan), so it makes no sense for Orlando to get average talent back and hang around 30-40 wins while missing the playoffs. If you’re going to lose Dwight, the main priority should be to clear cap room and put yourself in a good position to land a top 3 pick in the lottery. The Magic succeeded in this process in McGrady’s final season as a Magic player. The team got the first pick, got lucky with Dwight, and had room to sign a max player after Dwight had some seasoning in the NBA. It’s unfortunate that Rashard Lewis was the best available that off-season, but imagine if a player such as Wade, Paul, or Williams was out there in free agency, we’d all be praising the Magic for intelligently building a great team. Despite giving Lewis a max salary, this team was in the finals and nearly won a championship. Good process, but unfortunate result. Otis Smith had a good plan, but it didn’t work out, and because of that he’s reacted by “chasing” possible improvements that have failed miserably. Of course every Magic fan would love to see Dwight stay in Orlando, but if he does leave, the slate needs to be wiped clean and the Magic need to start from scratch.
If it were up to me, I’d let Dwight hit free agency. The teams that would be able to sign him outright aren’t the teams that would be the most appealing to him (Lakers, Mavs, Hawks). To me it’d come down to joining Deron Williams in New Jersey/Brooklyn, or staying in Orlando. In the short term Orlando doesn’t look like a good option, but he is adored and loved in Orlando, loves the city and it’s people, and there’s no income tax in Florida. The city has seen him bud into a true MVP candidate, and the league’s best defensive player by a landslide. If he’s patient enough to tough it out in Orlando (I don’t expect him to be), he could be rewarded when the team gets out of a few bad contracts and is ready to add another stud.
This whole situation is highly complex, and we don’t have the true insight into Dwight’s thought process, so we’ll just have to see how it plays out. As a Magic fan, I’m obviously seeing deja-vu after Shaq bolted for LA, but I hope Dwight stays. The new CBA will have a huge hand in what takes place. Thanks for taking the time to read my opinion.
I agree with what you’re saying and it leaves me wondering how Otis still has a job with the Magic. Overpaid Lewis, traded cheap talent and expiring contracts for aging Carter, reacquired Turk (lost a starting center and defensive two guard who made less than Reddick), matched for Reddick and still went out and signed QRichardson. I almost forgot the Arenas acquistion (Lewis deal all over again). The deal breaker for me with OTIS was the acquisition of Carter. This deal took them out of the free agency bonanza of 2010. You gave up expiring contracts, CLee, and the possibility of signing one of these players to pair with Dwight; James, Wade, Amare, Bosh, Dirk, Pierce, or Allen. This mistake is unforgivable and has led to the end of the MAGIC.
No one is taking on Arenas, end of story.
If a team over the cap like the Lakers want Dwight, they’re going to have to take Arenas or Turkoglu (whichever isn’t released by amnesty). Otherwise there’s no reason for Orlando to make a trade.
When’s the last time a star was attached to a bad contract in trade?
Stephon Marbury with Penny?
Billups + Balkman with Melo.
I know Billups is a good player still (kinda) but they wanted to get rid of him and others for financial reasons.
Orlando will want to do the same.
As a Magic fan, give me the Chicago deal over the lakers deal. Two bum knees and two bum first round picks? You think that’s the best trade offer? get outta hear. I would rather do a trade with the LA Clippers and the unprotected 1st round pick and Kaman.
It would most likely be Howard and Turk for Bynum, Odom, and a pick. As a Laker fan, I would definitely do this. It would suck to see 2 really good players go, but with no young stars on the team, Howard will help in the present and the future. Howard isn’t stupid. He knows what it means to be a Laker and to have legendary status. It will definitely be the easiest place to be an icon. Some say the Lakers best years are behind them, I say they were EXTREMELY tired and not as motivated after being through 3 straight finals, and Kobe and Pau playing in the summers. Believe me, you haters are in for a surprise next year.
LOL, “It would suck to see 2 really good players go, but with no young stars on the team, Howard will help in the present and the future.”
C’mon son!
LAL should do it even if it involves Odom. Gasol and Dwight front court? Are you kidding me?
Why wouldn’t D12 want to play for the Clippers? Biggest market, huge endorsement potential, don’t have to share the ball with an over-the-hill Kobe, chance to lift a franchise into a place its never been and be a legend, get to play with GRIFFIN and have a serviceable backup center in case he gets T’d up (deandre jordan)…
gordon, kaman, someone like craig smith or gomes, 1st round pick for howard might get it done.
why would the magic want a guy who’s knees may fall off at any moment? yes when healthy he’s been fairly dominant, but look at brandon roy or greg oden…that’s not pretty.
Dwight Howard to Vinny Del Negro: “Is Donald Cheapas.s, Racist Sterling still the owner of the Clippers?” Vinny to Dwight Howard: “Yes”. Dwight Howard: “OK, thanks nevermind”.
do we know what sign and trades will be like under the new agreement? aren’t the owners trying to give more incentive to stay on ones team? i’m not sure i haven’t read much on the s and t subject but it seems like Howard should go to FA and not strip his team of all they got, unless of course LA is his preferred destination. if it’s the knicks, he would be best off signing there as an FA, and then have the 3 recruit steve nash for the mle. if its atlanta, he would be better off playing next to horford i think, although i know he has said he wants to play next to smith, horford/howard would be a monster front court. i personally think he should sign as a FA in NJ, even though I am a Knick fan, Deron/Howard would be a monster battle against the Knicks, Heat, Celts and Bulls. I think Dwight would be foolish to go to LA, whose best years are clearly behind them. They are locked into massive contracts for years, and the team would still have the problem of lacking a pg. Kobe is a great player, but the Lakers looked weak in the playoffs, and interior strength was not the problem.
This is from Mark Nugent on Hoopworld
The Los Angeles Clippers send Chris Kaman, DeAndre Jordan, Al-Farouq Aminu, Brian Cook and the Minnesota Timberwolves unprotected first round pick in 2012 to the Orlando Magic for Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkoglu.
The Lakers deal is actually the worst one. Why would the Magic want a guy who’s never averaged more than 15 points a game and hasn’t played in more than 65 since his first year in the rotation?
The Nets deal with Brook Lopez puts the Magic in much, much better shape than getting an overrated, often-injured Andrew Bynum and two late first-round picks.
lakers are perfect, but lakers lack so much youth. giving up 2 more first rounders would be tough. they havent had one in forever it seems and it has caught up to them. might be better off with bynum if thats the case. i know it’s dwight, but thats tough to swallow still IMO