I definetly agree with you. NBA players take the fucking deal
Michaelsays
Where is the provision that addresses the leagues ever growing $250 million worth of interest and depreciation expenses?
Where is the provision that helps limit or prevent owners for vastly overpaying for NBA franchises?
Where is the provision where owners take some responsibilty for the current economic mess that the NBA is in instead of blaming it all on the players? (the players whose salaries have been stagnant as a percentage of BRI since before the last CBA was agreed to in 1999)
All I see is a deal where the league will still be losing money in a few years and blaming it upon the players and demanding them to take massive salary reductions again in 6-10 years.
Marksays
Michael: there is absolutely nothing that prevents basketball players from playing ball and seeking money from the public to watch them play. If the players want to form their own league, nothing in this country prevents that either. Start up businesses take place every day in this country.
If you think the current 29 owners are giving the players a bad deal, surely there are 29 other individuals/corporations that would be willing to give a better deal. And if there is not, than the players should jump at this deal.
You know where I stand on this.
Michaelsays
Yeah, I do know where you stand on this, since you constantly respond to me spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
And my reply will always be the same, decertifying always will make a billion times more sense than starting their own league.
Marksays
Once the players decertify, all existing contracts could be nullified. Good luck getting the players to go that route. Aint going to happen.
As for your statement that a new league is nonsense, this demonstrates to me that you recognize the importance of league ownership but won’t admit it.
Michaelsays
They already have 200 signatures by various media reports. Not saying they are going to do it. But I’m sure you any sane rational person would choose that route instead of starting a league from scratch.
And with regards to your last statement, it’s nonsense because it’s terrible idea when compared to decertifying. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the importance of ownership.
Marksays
They won’t decertify. The thought of losing their guaranteed existing contracts will stop that.
You want the employees to have ownership rights. Karl Marx would be proud.
Michaelsays
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Karl Marx? LOL? You realize the owners entire system is practically built upon Marxism philosophy.
NBA players are not just “employees” like you and me. They work for a monopoly that has has an anti-trust exemption due to the presence of a union.
When will you get it through your thick skull that the job Gilbert Arenas does is not comparable to the job that you and I do?
Marksays
NIce try. It’s not a monopoly. I agree the NBA is far and away the best financial deal for a basketball player but nothing prevents a basketball player from making money off his/her basketball talents another way. For example, Lebron could form a Nike team and go around the country competing against a Converse team and they could sell tickets. Thousands of opportunities exist including trying to get the capital to form a new league. This would be expensive of course but doable — it might take some time to be profitable but that is the nature of start up ventures.
The problem is that no other option compares to the NBA and that is why the players are fighting tooth and nail to play in this league.
Michaelsays
To your second sentence- “The antitrust laws include several exemptions to their enforcement… Mergers and joint agreements of professional football, hockey, baseball, and basketball leagues are exempt.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law
You can also check out the link they provide to read up all on it as well as why they are exempt and why the union decertifying would end their exempt status.
The rest of your statement is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and is redundant babbling they you seem to do so well at.
I got to go to bed, so I can get up for work early tomorrow to work for my employer who is not exempt from US anti-trust laws like the NBA is.
Marksays
Fair enough. I have no problem if the players want to decertify, remove their existing contracts and than play it out that way. That would be interesting to watch.
TKsays
Don’t think this is a great deal for the players but I dont see it getting any better.
I can understand if the players make a line in the sand and blow up the season, however dont see that happening cause 90% of the league cant afford to take a year off.
I hope they accept this deal purely because I love watching the NBA and can’t imagine losing a whole season.
Marksays
I wonder if the players are even aware of this provision in the agreement. What are they possibly complaining about?
Player Benefits
• New benefits pool to be funded with 1% of BRI for post-career player
annuity and welfare benefits.
Michaelsays
Since the Union demanded that, I’m sure they are well aware of it.
Franksays
Yes they did but in all their complaining this weekend I haven’t seen them acknowledge that the owners gave in on this.
Michaelsays
How would you know they haven’t told the players this? And what are they supposed to publicly state every time the NBA agreed to a provision they asked for?
I’m sure that public statement would be far outweighed by all the provisions the players don’t want that the owners have demanded they accept. You know, starting with that $3 billion bailout…
Marksays
NBA players are employees. Employees in this country are free to seek employment elsewhere. Amare Stoudamire was quoted as saying the players have talked about forming their own league. They should do that if they don’t like this deal. Of course, they might find that the costs to do so are greater than they thought but NOTHING prohibits them from doing so.
Michaelsays
How does what you just wrote have anything to that has been said in this convo thread? You’re like a robot with this “start your own league” nonsense
Marksays
Michael: you seem to think employees should have ownership rights. The only way that happens is if the employees become owners and the path to do that is one you reject.
Michaelsays
Where do I say employees should have ownership rights? Where are you getting this stuff from?
However, when the employees work for a monopoly that has an anti-trust exemption due to the presence of a union, then yeah, I do feel as though employees are entitled to a more unique set of rights than regular employees.
Perrysays
i would love to hear from the players side as to why EXACTLY this deal is sooooo awful it seems to make perfect since. what, did they think they would get EVERYTHING? if the players last week said that they would take the 50/50 split, but they needed some more on the “system issues” than i want to know what more they want. if they reject this deal, this question must be answered in a form other than “we just need more from the owners.” god i will be sooo pissed.
Michaelsays
I’ll tell you exactly why.
Cutting a single dollar of player salary does not solve any of the NBA’s financial problems. Player salaries have been stuck at 57% of BRI since before the last CBA was agreed upon in 1999.
Players agree to this deal, owners will still be losing hundreds of millions of dollars by the end of it because cutting salaries does nothing to solve the league’s financial problems.
Franksays
While you may be right that isn’t the point. The question is what would it take, specifically, to make a 50-50 deal acceptable. And that should be their response to this letter.
Michaelsays
Some cost control measures in place for management. Limits on how much teams can be bought and sold for. Limits on how much owners can make the players pay for the owner’s purchase of a team. Heck, let’s even put caps on owners salaries while we are it.
I’d be totally in favor of cutting player salaries, if the league would do ANYTHING to address the actual financial problems that have led to the increased losses over the course of this past CBA
MadManleysays
In case players are reading this site and message boards, I have one message for them:
ACCEPT THIS DEAL!
It is fair and reasonable. The NBA needs to grow and develop and with this proposal, everyone wins.
If players reject this deal, the league will be damaged, and as a result, players’ reputations will also be damaged.
I definetly agree with you. NBA players take the fucking deal
Where is the provision that addresses the leagues ever growing $250 million worth of interest and depreciation expenses?
Where is the provision that helps limit or prevent owners for vastly overpaying for NBA franchises?
Where is the provision where owners take some responsibilty for the current economic mess that the NBA is in instead of blaming it all on the players? (the players whose salaries have been stagnant as a percentage of BRI since before the last CBA was agreed to in 1999)
All I see is a deal where the league will still be losing money in a few years and blaming it upon the players and demanding them to take massive salary reductions again in 6-10 years.
Michael: there is absolutely nothing that prevents basketball players from playing ball and seeking money from the public to watch them play. If the players want to form their own league, nothing in this country prevents that either. Start up businesses take place every day in this country.
If you think the current 29 owners are giving the players a bad deal, surely there are 29 other individuals/corporations that would be willing to give a better deal. And if there is not, than the players should jump at this deal.
You know where I stand on this.
Yeah, I do know where you stand on this, since you constantly respond to me spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
And my reply will always be the same, decertifying always will make a billion times more sense than starting their own league.
Once the players decertify, all existing contracts could be nullified. Good luck getting the players to go that route. Aint going to happen.
As for your statement that a new league is nonsense, this demonstrates to me that you recognize the importance of league ownership but won’t admit it.
They already have 200 signatures by various media reports. Not saying they are going to do it. But I’m sure you any sane rational person would choose that route instead of starting a league from scratch.
And with regards to your last statement, it’s nonsense because it’s terrible idea when compared to decertifying. It has nothing to do with my opinion of the importance of ownership.
They won’t decertify. The thought of losing their guaranteed existing contracts will stop that.
You want the employees to have ownership rights. Karl Marx would be proud.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Karl Marx? LOL? You realize the owners entire system is practically built upon Marxism philosophy.
NBA players are not just “employees” like you and me. They work for a monopoly that has has an anti-trust exemption due to the presence of a union.
When will you get it through your thick skull that the job Gilbert Arenas does is not comparable to the job that you and I do?
NIce try. It’s not a monopoly. I agree the NBA is far and away the best financial deal for a basketball player but nothing prevents a basketball player from making money off his/her basketball talents another way. For example, Lebron could form a Nike team and go around the country competing against a Converse team and they could sell tickets. Thousands of opportunities exist including trying to get the capital to form a new league. This would be expensive of course but doable — it might take some time to be profitable but that is the nature of start up ventures.
The problem is that no other option compares to the NBA and that is why the players are fighting tooth and nail to play in this league.
To your second sentence- “The antitrust laws include several exemptions to their enforcement… Mergers and joint agreements of professional football, hockey, baseball, and basketball leagues are exempt.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law
You can also check out the link they provide to read up all on it as well as why they are exempt and why the union decertifying would end their exempt status.
The rest of your statement is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and is redundant babbling they you seem to do so well at.
I got to go to bed, so I can get up for work early tomorrow to work for my employer who is not exempt from US anti-trust laws like the NBA is.
Fair enough. I have no problem if the players want to decertify, remove their existing contracts and than play it out that way. That would be interesting to watch.
Don’t think this is a great deal for the players but I dont see it getting any better.
I can understand if the players make a line in the sand and blow up the season, however dont see that happening cause 90% of the league cant afford to take a year off.
I hope they accept this deal purely because I love watching the NBA and can’t imagine losing a whole season.
I wonder if the players are even aware of this provision in the agreement. What are they possibly complaining about?
Player Benefits
• New benefits pool to be funded with 1% of BRI for post-career player
annuity and welfare benefits.
Since the Union demanded that, I’m sure they are well aware of it.
Yes they did but in all their complaining this weekend I haven’t seen them acknowledge that the owners gave in on this.
How would you know they haven’t told the players this? And what are they supposed to publicly state every time the NBA agreed to a provision they asked for?
I’m sure that public statement would be far outweighed by all the provisions the players don’t want that the owners have demanded they accept. You know, starting with that $3 billion bailout…
NBA players are employees. Employees in this country are free to seek employment elsewhere. Amare Stoudamire was quoted as saying the players have talked about forming their own league. They should do that if they don’t like this deal. Of course, they might find that the costs to do so are greater than they thought but NOTHING prohibits them from doing so.
How does what you just wrote have anything to that has been said in this convo thread? You’re like a robot with this “start your own league” nonsense
Michael: you seem to think employees should have ownership rights. The only way that happens is if the employees become owners and the path to do that is one you reject.
Where do I say employees should have ownership rights? Where are you getting this stuff from?
However, when the employees work for a monopoly that has an anti-trust exemption due to the presence of a union, then yeah, I do feel as though employees are entitled to a more unique set of rights than regular employees.
i would love to hear from the players side as to why EXACTLY this deal is sooooo awful it seems to make perfect since. what, did they think they would get EVERYTHING? if the players last week said that they would take the 50/50 split, but they needed some more on the “system issues” than i want to know what more they want. if they reject this deal, this question must be answered in a form other than “we just need more from the owners.” god i will be sooo pissed.
I’ll tell you exactly why.
Cutting a single dollar of player salary does not solve any of the NBA’s financial problems. Player salaries have been stuck at 57% of BRI since before the last CBA was agreed upon in 1999.
Players agree to this deal, owners will still be losing hundreds of millions of dollars by the end of it because cutting salaries does nothing to solve the league’s financial problems.
While you may be right that isn’t the point. The question is what would it take, specifically, to make a 50-50 deal acceptable. And that should be their response to this letter.
Some cost control measures in place for management. Limits on how much teams can be bought and sold for. Limits on how much owners can make the players pay for the owner’s purchase of a team. Heck, let’s even put caps on owners salaries while we are it.
I’d be totally in favor of cutting player salaries, if the league would do ANYTHING to address the actual financial problems that have led to the increased losses over the course of this past CBA
In case players are reading this site and message boards, I have one message for them:
ACCEPT THIS DEAL!
It is fair and reasonable. The NBA needs to grow and develop and with this proposal, everyone wins.
If players reject this deal, the league will be damaged, and as a result, players’ reputations will also be damaged.